Sir D. McLean.] How many were surveyed P—There were Waopu, Pekapeka, Wairake, One Dpoteka, of which the surveys had been commenced. That does not include the Victoria Valley pur3hases. A good many negotiations had• only been waiting for surveys. The whole had been waiting For the Land Court.
None of them hadpassed through the Court P—No ; none.
The Chairman.] Were they so nearly completed that there was very little work left to do ?There was very little work, except what might crop up at the Native Land Court. I consider that all the hard work had been finished ; such as getting the Natives together.
Aro you aware whether any of them have boon completed since ?—I believe some have.
Sir D. McLean.] Are you aware that Kaihu'has not passed through the Court yet P—Yes.
The Chairman.] Was the impression on your mind that Mr. Brissenden was to get a large payment in consequence of what you had done, with little work comparatively speaking P—Yes, I have been under that impression.
Did you understand from Mr. Brissenden that oneparticular block of timber land was to be cut out of the purchases (being made for the Government) P—Not a particular block ; simply in a general way. He told me also that I should get half the profits that would accrue to him from Kr. Russell.
Mr. Rolleston.] He made that offer to you ; Mr. Brissenden's offers were to the effect that you should participate in the profits made from cutting out land to give to Mr. Russell P—The offer was: He would get a certain profit—percentage—and that I should stand in with him in it.
And the transaction was—what P—That certain good blocks of timber in these lands—valuable timber—should be reserved ; should be cutout as reserves for the Natives ; but that, really, he should have them for Mr. Russell.
187. Who was it that Mr. Brissenden gave you to understand was in communication with him with reference to this proposal P—I have no recollection of his stating.
Do you mean you have no understanding from whom the propose% to Mr. Brissenden came? —I did not understand that he was doing this with direct authority. I understood from Mr. Brissenden that he had permission to excise these blocks for himself and his friends ; and he has repeated that to Mr. Webster, in my presence, about Kohukohu. He said he was allowed by the Government to excise certain blocks, and he would do so in this case.
[With reference as to whether Sir D. McLean was present when I laid the letter to him on the table in his room, I wish to make a further statement.]
WEDNESDAY, 18TH Al7GUST, 1875.
Hon. Sir D. MCLEAN examined on oath.
The Chairman.] I wish to ask you whether Colonel McDonnell had a conversation with you, in which he told you that Mr. Brissenden had informed him that he (Mr. Brissenden) was empowered to purchase timber leases for Mr. Russell and Sir Julius Vogel, and land for Dr. Pollen P—No, ho never told me anything of the kind.
Did you ever desire him to put such a thing in writing P—No ; I have been looking over the correspondence, and there is no letter of such a nature, on record.
I wish to know whether there were any presents given to the Natives at the Thames from time to time by the Government P—There were.
Who distributed these presents ?—I do not know. The officers down there. Mr. Puckey, I suppose.
Had the General Government Agent anything to do in distributing them P—I know one or two cases where he was authorized to make presents.
Do you think it probable that the Natives considered his clerks as being Government clerks too P—No, I do not think so. The Natives down there are generally intelligent. Taipari is one of them, and I think he would know the distinction.
Do you think they all did ?—I think most of them. I could not answer for all.
When the lease was signed in Mr. Mackay's presence, and Mr. Guilding acting as interpreter, and other officers as his clerks, do you think the Natives could distinguish between them and Government officers P—The interpreter employed when the lease was signed was Mr. Wilkinson. Mr. Guilding may have been there also.
His name is to it P—He very likely was there at the same time. I understood Mr. Wilkinson was there. I understood Mr. Wilkinson was acting-interpreter.
Do you think they looked upon them as Government officers ?—I do not think the Natives generally would ; because Mr. Mackay had for a long time been acting for private persons, and disconnected with the Government.
Do you consider it a proper thing of the Government having allowed that share to be given to Mr. Crippen, when Mr. Mackay was acting as General Government Agent P—No, I do not ; I do not consider it was.
Had he your authority to engage in this land purchase for Mr. Russell, near Te Aroha ?He was generally acting under instructions from Dr. Pollen, who was resident in Auckland at the time arrangements were made for that block.
Was it you who put Mr. Brissenden in Colonel McDonnell's place to the north of Auckland did not put him in Colonel McDonnell's place. I removed Colonel McDonnell, and Mr. Brissenden was there negotiating at the time. He had been there for some time, backwards and forwards, and had entered into several negotiations.
Do you think that Mr. Mackay ought to have reported to the Provincial Government the particular block of land which he was going to select for the Natives on the Tairua block ?—I think he ought to have reported to the General Government, because he was an officer of theirs.
65