Then he did not report to the General Government about the reserve ?—He reported the reserve, but not the selection till recently—after the survey had been made.

After the block had been surveyed?—Yes.

With regard to the timber lease of Mr. Russell on the Opango Block, which Mr. Mackay 18 said belonged to himself formerly, do you recollect the reason that a Proclamation was issued on the 6th of September, taking that block from under the control of the province P—I could not state the reason. I suppose there are reasons in the correspondence. I believe there is a correspondence about it.

May that be furnished to the Committee ?—I will look up the papers and furnish them if the Committee think it necessary.

Mr. Reflation.] I should like to ask you to state the terms of the arrangement with regard to the purchase of Mr. Russell that was referred to in the examination of Mr. Mackay here ?—The terms of it are simply these : That Mr. Russell gives up the purchase on one side of the river, and on the understanding that Mr. Mackay does not interfere with him on the other side in completing a certain purchase. The land that Mr. Mackay wanted to.complete the purchase of for the Government formed part of the Aroha block. Mr. Russell was buying there, and he relinquished his claim on one side of the river, as you will find stated in Mr. Mackay's report, which has been laid upon the table.

The Chairman.] Was the block which Mr. Russell was purchasing, and which now Mr. Mackay is purchasing for him, that included originally in the Proclamation issued forbidding purchases in that district P—It was outside the boundary that Mr. Ormond, as Minister for Public Works, had assigned to Mr. Mackay. I cannot state whether it came within the Proclamation or not.

Mr. Rolleston.] Did the Government understand that Mr. Mackay was to act jointly for the purchase of the whole for Mr. Russell and the Government, and subsequently there was to be a division of payment and of the land ?—I cannot answer that question. I do not know the particular nature of ti e arrangement. My understanding was, that Mr. Mackay threatened to purchase the whole for the Government if he did not get Mr. Russell to give up that portion nearest Te Aroha.

Is there correspondence upon the subject P—There is a printed correspondence laid upiin the table.

Does it show exactly what passed between Mr. Russell and Mr. Mackay ?—I cannot tell the Committee that.

Or between Mr. Russell and the Government P—Dr. Pollen would know more about the transaction than I do. He was in Auckland, and had charge of these matters at the Thames.

Was there any understanding with Mr. Mackay as to whether he was entitled to conduct private business at the same time ?—It was understood that he was not to conduct private business, but to work altogether for the Government.

Do you think it was right for Mr. Guilding to take a lease of that reserve from the Natives? —I do not think it was. If he had been a Government officer it would have been reprehensible. He was not in any way a Government officer. He was not connected with the Government, except by working for Mr. Mackay.

Do you not think it possible for Europeans or Natives to have misconceived the position of Mr. Mackay, alternating as .Land Purchase Commissioner and Government Agent, and as restricted from taking private practice ?—I think it is probable that Natives or Europeans might not know in what particular capacity he was acting. His transactions in connection with land were chiefly when he was not a Government Agent. He was Government Agent when in Waikato. When at the Thames, and in his district, he was purchasing land on commission. He was for a time acting as Agent at the opening of Ohinemuri.

The public had no means through the Gazette of knowing of any change in his position P—No.

Do you not think the whole arrangements require revision in regard to this system of land purchase P—The system is one that has been forced upon the Government from the circumstances of the country. They had to compete with numerous capitalists coming in, and had to employ the best agents they could to secure the land for the public. A reference to the correspondence will show how difficult it was for the Government to get any land at all under the circumstances. As soon as it is possible, the system which I prefer will be adopted, to employ officers on salary to acquire land, and not on commission.

Is the Government advised that the purchase of timber is legal upon land for which no certificate of' title has been granted ?, It is not legal, of course—not strictly legal. It has been permitted from the foundation of the olony to the present day. There was an Act restricting the purchase of timber and everything else, which was repealed by the Assembly.

The Chairman.] Why were the Provincial Governmeneat Auckland not allowed to interfere in these land purchases ? I ask that because I do not admit that these difficulties were of a character which, I understand, the General Government feel them as being.—The Provincial authorities had been consulted about these. Under the first sum of £200,000 the Superintendent had been consulted ; and both Superintendents had been consulted about these purchases, and one of them, at least, took an active part in the purchases.

But latterly that was not the case ?—Latterly, I believe, it was not the case. I would point out to the Committee this difference between the £200,000 and the £500,000: that the intention was to charge the £200,000 to the provinces, and consequently it was understood that the Superintendent should have a voice in the purchase of this land. There was no such condition applicable to the last sum of money granted for purchases.   •

Mr. Rolleston.] Would it not be a great advantage to Mr. Russell and others to have these negotiations conducted by a Government agent for lands of which by Mr. Mackay's arrangements they would have the whole of the timber for ninety-nine years : I mean that the Government should buy the land ?—I do not think so.

Would it not make the Government their landlords, instead of the Natives P—I do not see there was any advantage particularly ; after the land had passed through the Court the title was just as good as if the Government had it. A good many of these blocks had passed through the Native Land Court.