THIMBDAY, 12th August, 1875. Mr. JAMES MACKAY examined on oath.
I. The Chairman.] Did you purchase the Tairua block for the Government 7—Yes. Mr. Mackay.
2. Do you recollect the date P—I am not quite certain. Some time in December, 1872. It will be 12th A—ug., 187f found on referring to my report. It might be on the 6th or 7th of December, 1872.
Was a lease executed by the Natives for the timber over that block of land on the day before you purchased it P—Yes.
Was the lease to Messrs. Seccombe and Company P—To Messrs. Seccombe and Son.
Had you any interest, direct or indirect, with Messrs. Seccombe ?—No, except what I had as their agent. In my report to Mr. Ormond of the 24th of January, 1872, I stated that the timber had been acquired by Seccombe and Son.
Did Seccombe and Son soon after sell the timber lease to Messrs Preece and Graham P—I believe they did.
Had you any interest, direct or indirect, with Messrs. Preece and Graham?—None whatever, except that I had lent Mr. Preece some money, which I afterwards got back.
What was the sum of money ?—£400 or £450. They wanted me to take an interest, but I declined.
Was the money lent when they began to make the purchase ?—I do not know what they did with it—whether part of it might be to enable them to make the purchase ; I had no share in the timber. They wanted me to become a partner in the timber if they got it.
How long was the lease for?—The original agreement was for as long as they chose to cut, but the lease was limited to forty years. It might be forty or forty-five years. -
Did you try to sell Seccombe's lease to• any other persons P—When I was acting as Seccombe's agent, I was asked to sell to Brogden and Sons. I was Seccombe's agent for surveying the block and getting a title. I stipulated with Mr. Ormond, when the Government asked me to purchase land, that I could not sacrifice the interest of my clients. Mr. Ormond said that he did not expect me to do so. I had to state in my report the position of the timber on the blocks ; that is, whether it had been alienated ; and then an arrangement was made as to the purchase. That was why the report of 24th January, 1872, was written.
.12. When you were trying to sell for Messrs. Seccombe and Son, did you state that the timber they had the, right to would be cut in five years P—I think not. On the contrary, I think I could find a telegram of Seccombe, addressed to me at Wellington, in which it is stated that there would be fifty years' cutting.
You did not telegraph to anybody to say that Seccombe had said five years.—I do not think so. At the time I was selling to Brogden I did not know much about it ; and I telegraphed to Seccombe, asking him how many years' cutting there would be, and I think he told me fifty years.
I have seen a telegram with your name, in-which it is said that five,years is the time.—That might be. That has nothing to d9 with the question. The Native agreement with Seccombe for the timber is until it is all cut. I might have done so under instructions from Mr. Seccombe.
In the case of the Hihi and Piraunui blocks, did you purchase these from the Natives on the 21st September, 1872 ?—I cannot say the exact date when they were purchased. It is probably mentioned in the report of 24th March, 1873. It might possibly be September. I do not recollect the date of these deeds,
On the day before the purchase of that block, was a lease of the timber and incidental rights for ninety-nine years given by the Natives to Messrs. Russell, Stone, and Wilson ?—Yes.
T1 en the Opango block—did you purchase that on the 24th of August, 1872, or about that date P—Yes, about that date.
On the 29th of July was the lease of the timber and incidental rights given by the Natives to the same gentlemen ?—I believe so.
Did you receive any money from them for these timber leases—from Messrs. Russell, Wilson, and Stone, or any of them ?—They were originally my own purchases. I bought that timber and transferred it to them.
What did you sell to them for ?—I got £100 over and above what I bad paid to the Natives.
What was the sum paid to the Natives ?—I paid the Natives £500. They paid the Natives £1,000 more. They carried ont my original agreement for the Waiwhakaurunga and Opango blocks. I did not get anything for Hihi and Piraunui ; I had not paid any money to signify on Hihiand Piraunui. I transferred to them before I had anything to do with the Government land purchases. I had nothing to do with the Government between 1869 and when I commenced to buy land in 1872.
Why was not mention made in the lease that you were the real person that sold to them P—I suppose that nobody had anything to do with my private transactions when I was not purchasing land for the Government. Between the 31st July,• 1869, and the time when I undertook to buy for the Government, I had as much right to buy timber as any other of Her Majesty's subjects, and therefore had a right to transfer. I transferred before I had anything to do with purchasing land. I had no personal interest when Mr. Russell and the others acquired the lease.
Why was it stated that the Natives were the real sellers P—Because the agreement had only been made, and I had not paid the balance of the purchase money to the Natives. They (Russell and others) were the actual ptirchasers.
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